Chat in English (英語で雑談) part 207
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Previous Thread:
Chat in English (英語で雑談) part 205
http://lavender.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/english/1511354807/
Hey!!! All you NEETs, nerds, YouTube link spammers, pedophiles, neo-Nazis,
Yukorin enthusiasts, Nanako SOS admirers, Part-Time-Preachers,
Diplomats' spoiled sons, losers who can't remember Kanji characters,
Big-boobs fans, Weeaboo from around the world, learners of Japanese
who are too lazy to update their Japanese blogs very often, cunning
linguists, stupid fan girls of Johnny's Boys, Touhou pirates, and
that electrical super-gay who suffers from mental disease - This is your thread!
Let's hope the Internet-addicted housewife will come back soon!
We all wish for permanent world peace!
※前スレ
Chat in English (英語で雑談) part 206
http://lavender.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/english/1516987808/ Or just whinny whites which came to Japan and never discriminated agaist back home.
They are the worst. >>424
In many other countries, people of multiple ethnicity are very common and because of that, locals will no longer bother to address them "foreigners" imo.
Additionally, people overseas would most probably find the word derogatory and offending since it almost implies that they are basically not the part of their community even though they strongly believe they are,
and sometimes people use it on purpose to set themselves apart from them, I assume.
On that note, Japan is a relatively unique country. When addressing someone a "foreigner", most people here don't mean to offend them nor reject their presence by calling so.
It's a shame they don't take that as we meant them to be, I guess it's one of the most important things to take note beforehand for anyone to come visit Japan. I’m eating popato chips again... ugh so good but feel guilty after eating it different people have different viewpoints and everybody is ok in this thread.
this thread will go on and on in that way... >>429
> different people have different viewpoints and everybody is ok in this thread.
> this thread will go on and on in that way...
Very agree! >>428
> I’m eating popato chips again... ugh so good but feel guilty after eating it
Yesterday I went to a Seven eleven.
And realize the fact that there has a lot of seems nice snacks.
Amazing! >>288
> >>285
> I like 青椒肉絲 by the way.
Hummm .
Sounds nice, This thread is nice.
But,Take a look at sister site as listed below because you’ll see a new world.
http://bbs.sp.findfriends.jp/?pid=thread_detail&;id=115921&pager_type=pager&page=1&w4&w4
That's ok if you don't come to the site. A question for the native Japanese speakers: what is your interpretation or feeling of 〜ている verbs?
In English, 〜ている is taught as the continuative form (歩いている = walking) and the form for the result of a state change (知っている = know, as in "I know"),
but from what I know about Japanese grammar, my intuition is that this form isn't any different than the use of 〜て as a connective form (座って食べる) and いる, as in to exist.
What do you think of this intuition?
Do you view utterances such as "食べている" as a single word or two words (or maybe even three)?
If so do you feel いる has any semantic meaning or is it purely an auxiliary verb like ます (食べます) to you?
Somewhat related but can there be ambiguity in meaning between a resultant state and continuative action?
For example, can "パンを食べている" mean both "(I) am eating bread" and "There is bread which has been eaten"? >>434
食べている is one word.
In dialog 食べている is equall to 食べてる.
You pronounce 食べてる in only one breath. >>434
I have no expert knowledge of Japanese language. So what I say is only a guess.
> this form isn't any different than the use of 〜て as a connective form (座って食べる) and いる, as in to exist.
I have never interpreted 〜ている like that, but come to think of it, yes, your intuition could be right.
When written in a kanji form, いる is 居る, meaning being present somewhere.
When we are eating, we are eating and at the same time we are present at a place where we are eating.
> can there be ambiguity in meaning between a resultant state and continuative action?
> For example, can "パンを食べている" mean both "(I) am eating bread" and "There is bread which has been eaten"?
Yes, I think there could be ambiguity as you say.
But normally, when we say "パンを食べている", it means "(I) am eating bread."
As for your second interpretation, "There is bread which has been eaten", we will say "パンを食べてしまっている" in that case. 歩い+て+いる I'm walking
て: auxiliary connective
いる: auxiliary verb that implies a continuative action.
This can be applied to 食べ+て+いる: I'm eating.
食べ+ます
ます: a polite expression
This just means "I will eat".
知っ+て+いる
て:auxiliary connective
いる:auxiliary verb that implies present state.
As this shows there is no ambiguity between a "continuative action" and "present state".
パンを食べている clearly means I'm eating bread. I don't think it has any other meanings. I think the difficulties for learners of Japanese language arise from dictionaries. Even some Japanese native speakers find it difficult to search exact explanations in Japanese Japanese dictionaries.
And English native speakers tend to analyze phrases quite grammatically. This is not common for Japanese.
I think few people, if any, pay attention to grammatical structures so sometimes it is difficult for Japanese native speakers to explain it grammatically.
I think this is quite opposite to English native speakers. I've heard that they analyze grammatical structures in English on a daily basis. Reviewing my own sentences make me feel sad...
I wish I could write more natural sentences... Fuck the Japanese launguage. Why is that English did not become the official launguage when Japan lost WW2? Both English and Japanese have their own distinguished advantages.
And learning other languages itself has huge benefit to our brain. Japanese has its own beauty.
Plus, if we forget Japanese, we lose access to our cultural ancestries. >>437
As an example in which パンを食べている can mean "There is bread which has been eaten,"
I've come up with this kind of dialogue.
（状況：医師が看護師に患者が食事を食べたかたずねる）
医師：「患者は食べ物を全部食べましたか？」
看護師：「パンを食べています。でも果物は残しています。」
(situation: The doctor asks the nurse if the patient has eaten the food.)
doctor: Has the patient eaten all the food?
nurse: He has eaten bread, but he has left fruit. >>440
> Fuck the Japanese launguage. Why is that English did not become the official launguage when Japan lost WW2?
Fuck you. >>441
> Both English and Japanese have their own distinguished advantages.
> And learning other languages itself has huge benefit to our brain.
What kind of benefit is that? >>442
> Japanese has its own beauty.
> Plus, if we forget Japanese, we lose access to our cultural ancestries.
That's right. >>444
What I'm trying to say is that パンを食べている can have a meaning other than "I'm eating bread" in some situations.
As I have shown in the example in 443, パンを食べている can mean "Bread has been eaten."
In the example above, the patient has already eaten bread, he is not eating bread at the time when the conversation is taking place. >>447
> >>445
> Fuck me please?
Don't want that.
Fuck yourself, >>451
> >>450
> I want your fuck.
Fuck you! >>452
Fuck me hard like there’s no tomorrow! as you grow up, you learn a lot of things both at school and at home.
the adults around you, i mean, the teachers and the parents teach and tell you a lot of things.
but how many of us were told exactly when to stop using your teethbrush, throw it away and start to use a new one.
i am sure it depends on each person the timing to change his/her teethbrush.
by the way i usually change mine before the brush gets curly. >>455
no way!
that toothbrush (at the left)...it's almost gross! >>456
Apparently this toothbrush is someone’s boyfriend’s and his gf is confused about it and posted it online. >>446
Learning foreign languages, you can brush up your skills in coposing sentences.
I mean both your mother tounge and foreign languages. >>435
>>436
>>437
>>438
>>443
Thank you for your insights.
It's interesting to me how 食べている can be viewed as a single word, and I wonder if such a view extends to longer chains like 待たされていました or expressions like 少しも or 誰か.
Also, feel free to ask me about my views on any English statements you may have;
I'll try to answer with how I feel about them, though my interest in linguistics may influence my answer to be more technical than the average person's. >>434
I think that いる in 食べている doesn't mean "to exist", it's much more like a part to show the state of your action, so if you put any required inflection to this, it could be something you've done (〜ました) or you are planning on (〜ます).
And you've got it right about that 〜て thing, it's just the way to connect two different verbs in one phrase. This doesn't serve any semantic purpose in a sentence.
As such, 食べている is made up of two major parts, your action 食べる, and いる to suggest this action is currently on-going. >>443 Japanese here.
In my book, “食べている” consists of two verbs “食べる（て）” and “いる,” respectably in conjuctive form and end form.
Hence it has some meaning. 私が好きなあなた
This has two meanings.
“I who like you”
“You who like me”
Possibly this is one of the most difficult part for japanese learner. You gotta understand its context Some trucks automatically say: "Be careful, I'm backing".
This makes me perplexed.
Isn't it the drivers' responsbilities to be careful?
Why do I have to be told to be cautious about them? lol
>>459
彼は/長い間/待たされていました。
Some people may consder this sententese constructed by three "single word" like this
but it's completly up to one's perceptin rather than the grammatical rationale. Umm, my explanation doesn't seem good.
I revoke my example sentense completly.
Ordinary people may consider 待たされて and いました as a single word respectively,
but again this is just an assumtion no one could say it definitively. White people and Christians are disgusting i intended to fill a bathtub in my house with hot water at 43℃
but i seem to have forgot to turn on the heater.
the bathtub was instead filled with cold water.
i was about to weep in the bathroom to notice it. >>465
> White people and Christians are disgusting
No especially you’re dIsgusting. i wanted to get rid of some comic books to secure more room on the bookshelves in my room.
i would rather sell them than just throw them away as paper garbage,
so i made a request for the quotation on some website.
i am looking forward to hearing from them soon. >>468
I guess Mercali is the best choice to take. I’ve been practicing “minimalism” a couple of years now. Comics? No way! Just throw away! >>470
Interesting.
What do you have beside you recently? >>471
Bed, desk, laptop, a few pens and a scissors, some clothes... some people say my room is like a prison lol >>464
After skimming through a couple of websites dedicated to explaining Japanese grammar, and apparently there's an grammatical terminology called "morpheme",
which is the smallest unit of given combination of letters that cannot be broken down to any smaller pieces.
To explain that, let me take your sentence as an example. 待つ ("to wait"), of course, the verb playing the most important role here, and される as する("to do") in passive form, and lastly, いました, that is います in past tense.
Each of these parts are delivering just the information as the speaker intended: any more omission or contraction would affect the entire meaning of the sentence.
As for the last two parts, される and いました, they don't make sense by themselves, because they are so-called "bound morpheme" which are dependent on another morpheme(s) thus couldn't be used alone.
Please note that this is just an opinion from this grammar noob, chances are some experts here and there will differ with me in lots of this,
but for now I think >>434 wanted to know that if we are even aware of these details when speaking Japanese, and clearly we, or at least I had no idea at all. How curious. Seeing Wikipedia, morphemes refer to minimum components of words. Even "-ed" which makes past tenses is called morphemes according to some sites.
So I'm afraid that this is contrary to what the person wanted to know.
Some people may see 食べている as a single word. I can agree with that. When it comes to whether or not we can extrapolate it into 待たされていました, that will be a challenging question lol.
Frankly speaking, we have seen the words numerous times throughout our lives so we never try to break it down and analyze it to interpret the phrase. It's just automatic.
But I know the reason why the person asked the question. In English it is clear that 食べている is consisted by several words: "be eating" and we can easily detect that there is a present continuous tense.
In Japanese it seems more integrated as if it were a single word.
In conclusion, I think this analytic way of thinking grammer is unique to English native speakers.
Most Japanese native speakers have never spend their time analyzing grammatical structures in Japanese sentences. This is some kind of cultural differences. >>473
Sorry, I misinterpreted your context.
You wanted to introduce the notion of "bound morpheme". It can provide a clue to consider this matter.
Technically speaking, bound morpheme also refers to suffixes like 的 of 圧倒的 so it cannot be a direct answer to this question but it is intriguing notion.
As this exchange shows, grammar in Japanese could be very technical and academic issues.
It's not something ordinary people care about. >>475
This thread is nice.
But,Take a look at sister site as listed below because you’ll see a new world.
http://bbs.sp.findfriends.jp/?pid=thread_detail&;id=115921&pager_type=pager&page=1&w4&w4
That's ok if you don't come to the site. I'm not eligible to participate in the site.
Reading back >>474,475 dismays me.
It is full of grammatical errors and extremely redundant.
How can one write such ugly sentences. Unbelievable... I should study English before teaching Japanese. >>477
Calm down calm down. >>466
Fee for gas abnormally increase in such
situation, >>477
I think your English is superb.
Cheer up! Everybody participating in this site is making mistakes.
Even Kobo-Daishi sometimes makes mistakes, right? ;) >>480
There’s miss or not isn’t concern.
What’s important?
It’s you can give and take of information or not. Yes, the important thing is whether you can give and take something by joining the site.
That's for sure. I totally agree with you. I hate Mother Teresa. She is a real wicked bitch. Did you know she belives that watching dying people is actually a beautiful thing? Even though she has so much money given by donations from all over the world, she didn’t give any painkillers to them.
BUT when she was ill, she went to America and got painkillers and superb treatments from great doctors.... what a hypocrite >>483
> I hate Mother Teresa. She is a real wicked bitch.
Agree.
I head that she’s a pshychopass like Gacy. She is nothing but a liar. Hope she is in hell if there’s such a thing as hell somehow, i felt like looking up a word "chat" in a dictionary and did it on a dictionary website.
chat1 /tʃæt/ ●●○ verb (chatted, chatting) [intransitive]
1 (also chat away) especially British English to talk in a "friendly" informal way,
especially about things that are "not important"
having seen this, i am beginning to think that i should care more about what i post and how i post it in this thread.
hmm, it's interesting and i Mother Teresa is a bitch yo! >>474, >>475
Thanks to you I finally understand what he was asking, geez, my reading comprehension is terrible as always.
So he said that from a grammatical standpoint, 食べている should be seen as one word,
but he's got a hunch that there are more than two verbs in the word, 食べる and いる, and this て in the middle works as conjugation, making up a compound verb with that.
I agree with him. However, the word doesn't have meaning by itself, like you said, it's only there to indicate the verb's tense is present continuous.
Also, bringing up a morpheme there is off-topic you say, well, you are right and thank you for pointing out my misunderstanding. And I think your English is awesome, too. Don't go too hard on yourself. It's definitely interesting hearing how natives parse their own language, and I suppose the reason 〜ている verbs could be viewed as a single word is because Japanese doesn't have a very explicit way of marking word boundaries.
English has spaces but Japanese really only has particles and maybe hiragana kanji transitions and 連体形 verbs and adjectives to mark the start and stop of a word.
Studying the grammar of Japanese has helped me get a better understanding of why some constructions are the way they are, but it seems that it is causing me to think in a way that a native wouldn't.
For example, when I see "知っている" I see 知る in the 連用形 form contracted with て plus いる which, from what I gather in this thread, is different to how a native would see it. >>486
> She is nothing but a liar. Hope she is in hell if there’s such a thing as hell
Collecting patients from all over the world do nothing to them. >>487
How come you carefully post a rip?
There's no reason of beting carefull in the sentenses of the dictionally. tgif but i'm gonna study English tomorrow, and sit at Toeic the day after.
gonna be a boring weekend. omg >>493
Hummm,
Soundrs so boring. thanks for your comment. lol. after the exam, i am gonna go out with a friend of mine to offset the mess, though. >>486
I'm sure you are going to meet her one day. >>496
> >>486
> I'm sure you are going to meet her one day.
What do you mean?lol it is said that lithium-ion rechareable battery somehow starts burning by itself,
so you mustn't keep away from it when it is used, i mean, when it is plugged into some outlet.
i am wondering what the root cause of this unexpected burning is.
and i bet a lot of people leave their batteries behind while they do something else without keeping an eye on them... >>499
I think it’s a matter of quality of battery.
You can get a rechargable one at
DAISO. Do you use Groupon in your city? >>500
daiso?
i am afraid i don't feel like paying daiso a visit to get a rechargeable battery...
luckily, i have never experienced my batteries or the other portable devices
suddenly starting burning by themselves.
i will intend to not be away when recharging them. >>502
Daiso’s such battery is famouse for
it’s fault, What’s interersting things nowadayrs
around you? This thread is nice.
But,Take a look at sister site as listed below because you’ll see a new world.
http://bbs.sp.findfriends.jp/?pid=thread_detail&;id=115921&pager_type=pager&page=1&w4&w4
That's ok if you don't come to the site. >>388
Would the admins take action if we reported him for advertising websites? >>505
> This thread is nice.
>
> But,Take a look at sister site as listed below because you’ll see a new world.
>
> http://bbs.sp.findfriends.jp/?pid=thread_detail&;id=115921&pager_type=pager&page=1&w4&w4
>
>
> That's ok if you don't come to the site.
Keeping away from you is very important
for everyone.
Get away fucking commy. >>506
None of your bussiness.
Don’t bother other one. Higher temp for the season is continuing.
Is that nation wide? No, it's cold in here, 18 degrees Celsius. IJHI UFNQBMJUVSF EP OPU LJMM B QFSTPO.
CSFBUI FBTJFS!
シーザー1 J UIJOL GSFF JT UIF NPTU JNQPSUBOU UIJOH JO BOZ EFNPDSBUJD QMBDF.
Caesal2 it sounds cool to live in a very tall, tower-like apartment
which are developed and built very often in recent years in japan (called タワーマンション in japanese).
but according to a resident of such an apartment,
you are not allowed to dry your clothes or futons at balcony, outside of your room.
it is because those things might fall down to the ground at a very rapid speed and injure (or even kill) somebody below.
i was convinced to hear this but i would feel disappointed if i couldn't let the sun dry my clothes or futons at balcony...
the warm sunlight is really comfortable. My cousin is a resident of タワーマンション. He said you don’t have to separate gabages at all like combustibes, plastic, can, plastic bottles, bin etc etc because there is a guy who is specifically doing this job like separating gabages. >>516
oh it's definitely one of good points to live in tower-like apartment.
if you don't need to separate garbage, it's really time-saving
and it satisfies the residents' needs.
i believe that those who can live in such apartments tend to live hectic lives. >>517
But he’s lived in those places for too long, he doen’t have any idea how common people do on a daily basis. For example, he can’t do any gabage separation, he even didn’t know there is 燃えるゴミの日 and 不燃物の日 until recently.
Oh well he is one of those rich IT people, so he does not even know such things in the first place. Actually is such tower really expensive
in rent a room? how about the word high rise condo forタワマン? I hate all タワマン people. They look down on common people. i imagine that those people are highly motivated, always look up
and work hard to reach a higher level of their professional skills.
they don't have time to look down on ordinary people, do they?? It depends on the person, I think. ■ このスレッドは過去ログ倉庫に格納されています
